Director Rich Peppiatt Brings Irish Hip Hop to the World Through his Award-Winning Film “Kneecap”

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Parent Category: Film and the Arts

Category: Interviews

Published on Wednesday, 07 August 2024 15:02

Written by Brad Balfour

Photo: Brad Balfour

When I was given tickets to its Tribeca Festival premiere, I was excited to see “Kneecap,” even if only to hear Gaelic rap. Thanks to the manic performance of this Belfast-based trio and the frantic direction by Rich Peppiatt, I declare that — as Charlie XCX would say — it’s “brat.”

“Kneecap” is this sex, drugs, and hip-hop biopic about a real life trio from Northern Ireland which does its business in Gaelic, the aboriginal Irish language. In 2019, fate brought together disillusioned music teacher, JJ, with self-confessed “low life scum,” Naoise and Liam Og. The result? Performers “Kneecap” and the sound of Irish music was changed forever.

But amongst all the mad stuff in the film that Irish-Brit Peppiatt made out their origin story, it’s really about the protection of indigenous language and culture. That combination of serious issues with the group’s wild antics made it a sensation at Sundance where it won the NEXT audience award. Now released through Sony Pictures Classics, it’s been selected as the Irish entry for Best International Feature Film Oscar at the 97th Academy Awards.

Before all this, Peppiatt worked as a journalist for numerous national newspapers. In 2011, his resignation letter to “Daily Star” proprietor Richard Desmond –– in which he accused the paper of Islamophobia and unethical journalism –– went viral when it was leaked to “The Guardian” newspaper. He became a prominent critic of tabloid behavior, giving evidence at the Leveson Inquiry into Press Ethics.

Peppiatt turned his experiences as a journalist and the fallout from his resignation into a stand-up comedy show titled “One Rogue Reporter.” It premiered at the 2012 Edinburgh Festival Fringe. Described as “hilariously turning the tables on the tabloid power players, it tested the public’s right to know to its eye-opening extremity.”

After Edinburgh, the show toured across the UK, finishing up with a run at London’s Soho Theatre. Peppiatt transformed it into a documentary, “One Rogue Reporter” — starring Hugh Grant, Steve Coogan and John Bishop — which premiered at Sheffield DocFest in 2014.

Now, with “Kneecap” tossing the British-Irish writer/director together with the group into a worldwide media salad, this arts editor was engaged to probe both director and band about their lives and the film’s impact. Here’s my conversation with Peppiatt. Next week, look for my encounter with the trio. 

Q: A number of people have made movies about the Troubles. To show the post-Troubles world is fascinating. As you said in the production notes, you’ve heard about Kneecap and then it hit you. Is that what the movie is about?

Rich Peppiatt: I just went to one of their gigs. It was as simple as that, really. I was blown away by their stage presence, their sort of charisma, and the fact that they didn’t care about wearing their politics on their sleeves. Myself, I felt that music, in a big way, has become much more manufactured, PR’d to death and packaged up. They were so the opposite of that — that’s what I thought was so interesting. Above and beyond that, there were 800 young people in this crowd who were singing back every word. They were rapping in Irish. 
 
To me, it was a bit of a revelation. There was this sort of community in the north of Ireland of young people who were engaged with the language. Certainly, at a political level, there was a real stasis around the Irish Language Act which was a hot topic, but it didn’t seem to be going anywhere. So the juxtaposition of what was happening on the political level and this grassroots movement that was building, I just thought was the foundation of something interesting. 
 
Q: There’s a big debate in Ireland about reunification in 2030 where there’s hope to reunify, and it’s moving forward. Acceptance of the Irish language and allowing it to become, not a secondary thing, but an important aspect of learning the culture, is a cool thing. At the same time, this film probes the clubs and music scene in Belfast. How did you manage to include it all — and Michael Fassbender — without overwhelming us about it. 
 
Rich Peppiatt: I think Kneecap is very political in a small “p” way. Their political stance is just who they are. One thing that really interested me was their speaking the Irish language, in the way they do. Living their lives through the Irish language, whilst being born in and living under what is legal or illegal in the United Kingdom. That is fundamentally a very political act –– to reject not only recognition of the state, but also to reject their language. It’s such a fundamentally political thing to do that I found it very inspiring and very powerful. A lot of the politics in the film are built off of that.
 
Q: In Dublin, there’s a crop of bars that have grown up north of the Liffey [river] that very much reflects the kind of crowd that the youth are about. Once again, the youth are identifying with their own music and scene. You’re definitely older but you must have identified a scene that you were part of at one time.
 
Rich Peppiatt: I used to be a journalist. That was my first career, and I ended up resigning very publicly from my career in journalism and leaking my resignation letter to the Guardian. I ended up doing a stand-up comedy show based around that and making a documentary that was me going after tabloid newspaper editors.
 
Q: “One Rogue Reporter.” 
 
Rich Peppiatt: Yes, and that was a controversial film which upset people as well. I am just naturally drawn to controversy, but not for controversy’s sake. I just think that sometimes an interesting way to get underneath a topic and spark a conversation around certain issues is to do something controversial. I think that me and the band really bonded over that with a kind of a fairly carefree attitude as to what people think of us. 
 
Q: You’re making a documentary about them, but they’re acting themselves besides other actors….
 
Rich Peppiatt: I certainly wouldn’t call it a documentary. 
 
Q: A faux documentary?
 
Rich Peppiatt: Well, I don’t know if I’d call it that. You’re quite welcome to call it that because this is a film that different people will call different things. Some will say it’s a musical. I would call it a black comedy.
 
Q: There’s that too. 
 
Rich Peppiatt: There’s some documentary nods to it but, really, it’s a narrative feature film. The fact that it’s based on true events and also stars the people as themselves makes it quite a unique proposition as a project. That was probably something which maybe got us funded. It felt very different from anything out there that’s been done before. 
 
Q: Another thing about it is that it’s very meta to have your actors playing themselves. So, to some degree, they’re finding their truth in themselves in other ways. They’re adding a level of artifice. 
 
Rich Peppiatt: There’s a great degree of bravery that’s involved in the art of acting yourself on screen. If I say to them, “I want you to be sixth century knights,” and the audience turns around and goes, “that guy’s an asshole,” the character isn’t you. It doesn’t really affect your own feelings about yourself. But when you put your own real self up on the screen, you’re asking an audience to judge you, your family, and the decisions you make. That’s a vulnerable thing to do. 
 
Certainly, a lot of the film is true and it took the boys to places sometimes that were quite difficult for them, particularly around Nisha’s storyline, family issues and things like that. It brought up a lot of things. Perhaps they were things they weren’t always expecting it to bring up. It was difficult at times. But they persevered. They were determined to see it through and not shy away from that.But you’re right, it is a very meta film. Beyond just them playing themselves, there’s a lot of very overt nods to other films like “Trainspotting.” We have a whole thing in there, JJ disappearing down a bin. It’s just a very meta nod to the worst toilet in Scotland. There’s a scene with JJ in a mirror trying on his balaclava and dancing around and that’s “La Haine.”
 
Q: You mention that Danny Boyle is a very meta kind of director in some of his movies. You don’t even think about it until you think about it. 
 
Rich Peppiatt: Some directors don’t like the idea that anyone would think that they’ve copied anyone else or taken inspiration from anyone else. But the truth is, there’s nothing new under the sun. Personally, as a filmmaker, I have no problem doffing my cap to those who’ve come before and going, “Hey, I love that thing. Here’s my version of it.”
 
Q: Did you find that your English background gave you a different perspective on this? And then have you been out of the community? 
 
Rich Peppiatt: I don’t think an Irish man or woman could have made this film. I think that there’s so much baggage that comes with it, it would have been seen as sectarian.  I think the fact that I am British makes me Teflon from any accusation that, “The film you’ve seen is anti-British.” You can’t turn around and say it’s an anti-British film when it’s written and directed by a British person, right? It’s like whatever “The Daily Mail” or someone’s Britishness should be isn’t necessarily what I think Britishness should be. I think that Britishness is about recognizing your colonial past and the impact that the imperialism of my homeland has caused on places like the island of Ireland. 
 
Q: Have you learned a little Gaelic? 
 
Rich Peppiatt: Absolutely, I did two years of Irish classes. I threw myself into it. I was doing like five classes a week. I still wouldn’t say I’m fluent, but I get by. I’m the only one in my Irish family who speaks any Irish, so I like to throw that in their faces when they’re taking the Mick out of me for being English.
 
Q: There’s many opportunities for this movie to take the piss out of you. 
 
Rich Peppiatt: There you go.
 
Q: What are the things you think of as the most profound things you learned from the experience? 
 
Rich Peppiatt: In the learning of the language, there was a real understanding of what it means to the band, as a thing. Irish is an oral language, unlike English, which is a written language. So it’s passed down through music, stories and poetry. It was a realization that kneecaps were part of this very proud canon that stretches back, that predates English, of Irish storytellers. They are a modern version of that, but they very much are within that mold. I think that their cultural impact has been massive on the island of Ireland. It will outlast their music, and it will outlast this film. The impact they’ll have will be in preserving the language of their forefathers. And I think that’s a really special thing that they can lay claim to, even though they would never sit there and say it themselves. 
 
Q: Was there a difference between audiences seeing it in the North, and audiences seeing it in the South? 
 
Rich Peppiatt: To be honest, the film hasn’t really screened that much. Since we won the Audience Award at Sundance in January, most of our screenings have been in America. We’ve done a few European festivals and have had an Irish premiere. A very select few people in Ireland have really seen it so far, and that’s exciting. But it’s not until this month that the Irish proper premieres, when their release week sort of stuff happens.

We’re very excited to have the film out in America. It’s not something we expected –– going out to 1,000 or 1,500 screens. It’s a big release. Sony Pictures Classic have released some of my favorite films. My youngest daughter’s name is Amelie. My other daughter gets annoyed when I say that, because she says, why am I not named after one of your favorite films? And I say, “I didn’t think you wanted to be called “Trainspotting,” love. Ha ha!” [chuckling]
 
Q: At Sundance, you must have met people that are some of your icons and idols and all that. Did you get to meet anyone? 
 
Rich Peppiatt: Not really. To me it was all a bit of a blur. The film was received very well, and you have these things, then, Hollywood descends on you a bit. It was an interesting experience of having these meetings and talk about other films you want to do, being offered films that maybe you want to do.So it all passed and then you’d pop in to see the band occasionally. They’d be in a bar, drinking themselves to death. I was trying to balance having a bit of fun with doing some business, striking while the iron’s hot. You didn’t really know whether that week would be the week, or whether it would spiral from there. Luckily it has spiraled, and we’re in a very good position now. On a personal level, it’s opened a lot of doors that I never thought it would. And, it’s exciting.
 
Q: Quite an evolution from “The Guardian” I would say.
 
Rich Peppiatt: I did work at “The Guardian” at one point, but the paper I was on was “The Daily Star,” so it was an even bigger evolution. I worked on those papers. That was my first career. It was. I can’t say that I professed that I was a great journalist. But certainly, once you’re a journalist, journalism is storytelling. Once you have a feel for storytelling, it never leaves you.
 
I never live with regret. I think that the things that you do before set you up for the things you do after, sometimes in weird ways. I think of the sorts of projects, of films that interest me and do it. They’re always based in real life. I’m not a great person with a blank page. It’s always something based on a real thing.
 
Q: Do you think it’d be things based on your own life? Or do you think it’ll always be things you discover? 
 
Rich Peppiatt: No, not particularly my own life; I don’t think it’s that interesting. But I’ve lived a few lives. Certainly, spending five years with “Kneecap” has aged me somewhat.
 
For part of my life, I was a hard partier when I was a bit younger. But when I moved to Belfast, I’d just had my second child. It was the idea of moving out of London with my wife to live in Belfast for a bit of a quieter life, away from the madness of London. But within two weeks of arriving, I met Kneecap. My wife was like, “Of all the people you could make friends with, it would be those three? The hardest partying lads in the North!”
 
Q: Here you are. You’re moved to Belfast to have a quiet life, and then you’re making a music film, which isn’t exactly quiet. Of all the stars you could meet, or would meet, or would like to use for the next film, who was on your mind? James McAvoy or Ewan McGregor? But there you go, Danny Boyle –– have you ever met him, or do you want to meet him? 
 
Rich Peppiatt: The funny thing was, our composer –– a guy called Mikey J. Asante –– he was working with Danny Boyle in Manchester, on “The Matrix” musical.
 
Q: “The Matrix” musical?
 
Rich Peppiatt: One day, Mikey was sitting in a room, watching a part of our film, working out some music. Danny walked in, and he was like, “What are you watching?” Danny sat down and watched a couple scenes of the film, and then walked out. Then Mikey called me and was like, “You wouldn’t believe it. Danny Boyle’s just watched some of your film and he loves it!” I was like, “That’s great, that’s amazing.”Then the other person who… I woke up one morning and [“Trainspotting” author] Irvine Welsh had somehow gotten to a screening, like a freebie screening. And he had tweeted that he thought the film was absolutely fucking brilliant. That was a big kick. So now me and Irvine are actually talking about a project together.
 
Q: You could do his style, definitely. 
 
Rich Peppiatt: Look, it’s been a very transformative year, personally, for me. And then people say, “Are you enjoying it?” Yeah, I guess I am, but it’s also very anxiety-inducing. There’s so much going on all the time. And –– but no, look –– it’s filmmaking. Whenever you get a chance to be doing something that you’d do for free, but get paid for it, you’re not in a bad place. 
 
Q: Speaking of that, how did you cast Michael Fassbender and bring him in? How did you entice him? He’s the biggest star that you could get. How did that happen? That’s the obvious question here.
 
Rich Peppiatt: Well, there’s only really a handful of what you’d call top-tier Irish actors who speak Irish.
 
Q: Oh, I didn’t think of that hook. 
 
Rich Peppiatt: That was the thing. We went, “Well, who is there?” Michael Fassbender is a hero in Belfast for the way he depicted Bobby Sands in Steve McQueen’s Hunger. Okay. So for us, he was the first choice straight away. It was like, “Look, it’d be amazing to have Michael Fassbender.” And the script got into his hands. I think maybe, one of the funders, friend of a friend, sort of thing. Within a week, I got a text message saying, “Hi, it’s Michael. Do you want to chat?” To be honest, I thought it was one of those spam messages, or something. I thought, “Who’s Michael? Michael who?” I didn’t have a number saved for him. Then suddenly I realized, “Oh, maybe that’s Michael Fassbender.” Then 15 minutes later, we’re on the phone together. And 15 minutes after that, I came off the call. He had agreed to do it. 
 
Q: You directed Michael Fassbender [playing Arlo Ó Cairealláin father of trio member Naoise “Móglaí Bap” Ó Cairealláin]. Was that a little intimidating or did you slip right into it? Did the boys bust his chops, or whatever? 
 
Rich Peppiatt: Michael Fassbender –– look at the directors he’s worked with. From Tarantino, to Steve McQueen, it’s a who’s who — he’s really worked with everyone. Obviously, the weird thing about being a director is, unless you’ve come up within the system, so to speak, you’ve worked your way up through production — which I haven’t — you never really know how any other director directs anything. There’s only one director on set. You don’t spend much time with other directors. There’s always a part of you that questions whether the approach you take is similar, or whatever, to other directors’ approaches. Part of that’s because you can direct a film in a thousand different ways. 
 
There is no one right way to do it. But it certainly puts into focus in your head a little bit, with the idea that this guy’s worked with the best of the best. Is he going to be thinking, “What the hell is this guy fricking at?” Do you know what I mean? He would always hang out with us after shooting, and have some beers. And I’m sure at some point, drunkenly, I probably asked him, “Am I doing this right, Michael?”He was very complimentary, which was nice. He was probably just being polite. But when you look on a monitor and you see Michael Fassbender there doing a scene that you wrote, on your set, it certainly is a moment when you go, “I’m living the dream here!” You can also tell why he’s a movie star. You see him on that monitor –– the control he has, the poise he has on camera, just the look of him. He’s just got it.
 
Q: He has that eye and when he’s looking at the camera, or looking away, he’s got it down. 
 
Rich Peppiatt: Exactly. so, you go, “Okay, I can see why this guy is big time.” But also, he’s a lovely man. He brought a lot to the role and to the set. One thing the band was taught when we’re doing acting classes is that acting is all about reacting. It’s about listening and it’s about being in that moment with your co-stars. Good actors give you good things to react to, while bad actors give you nothing to react to. It’s hard to have a good scene and give a good performance across from a terrible actor.
 
Q: The band rose to the occasion.
 
Rich Peppiatt: They rose to the occasion. Absolutely. As good as I felt they were in rehearsals and in the studio, we were learning our acting chops …. They took it up 30 to 40% when we were on set actually doing the thing. Maybe that’s the performers in them as well. They used to being backstage and then, bang! The music drops and out they go; they turn it on. Certainly, when the camera rolled, they turned it on.
 
Q: Now, here you are, you’re on the stage, then you’re getting this movie scene — blah, blah, blah. Are you expecting to jump right into the next thing? Or do you need to chill out? How are you handling it? 
 
Rich Peppiatt: It’s been a long time now, since January, where it feels like sort of revving the engine with a handbrake on. Do you know what I mean? You’re promoting the film, going to film festivals, and then it’s all great. But I finished the film quite a long time ago now. And you’re ready to get on with the next thing. I’ve got a film lined up. It’s with an American studio, and that’ll be shooting next year, hopefully. So, we’ll see.

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