As Host of “The Traitors,” Multi-talented Alan Cumming Brings a New Flamboyance to The Peacock Network’s Hit Reality Game Show

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Parent Category: Film and the Arts

Category: Interviews

Published on Monday, 22 July 2024 15:13

Written by Brad Balfour

Not one to watch reality TV, I didn’t really get what “The Traitors” (the US version) was all about. But since it was hosted by Alan Cumming, the gender fluid actor/artist, I was intrigued to hear him speak about the show. He’s the host of the reality game show which is based on “De Verraders,” the Dutch show created by Marc Pos and Jasper Hoogendoorn.

Having completed two seasons, the offbeat American version features Cumming in flamboyant costumes making grand gestures and arch pronouncements as contestants in the game move into a majestic castle. As a result, Cumming has garnered an Emmy nom for Outstanding Host for A Reality or Reality Competition Program (“The Traitors”). This further enhances the show’s impact — but hopefully positive results will be in when the 75th edition of The Emmys airs September 15th on ABC.

The contestants work as a team to complete a series of dramatic and challenging missions. All of this to earn money for the prize pot. Some contestants are loyal, some are traitors — all of them established characters from other reality series.

Cumming —born on January 27, 1965, in Aberfeldy, Scotland—has had a long and distinguished career. He’s done everything from editing pop magazines, a cabaret show, dramatic TV series, various stage versions of Shakespeare’s plays and many starring roles in award-winning films. And, according to IMDB.com, "he’s able to flawlessly change his voice and appearance for each role."

Now as he tackles “The Traitors” reality show, as both host and a producer, Cumming creates a new icon to connect to the LGBTQ community. At a recent screening of an episode, he spoke about this series just in time for Pride Month and preceding the Emmy nominations.

Q: Alan Cumming, what makes you such an incredibly fun host to watch is that, unlike a lot of other reality shows, you really get into character. You become part of the cast in so many ways. What were your thought processes in coming into the show and figuring out how to play the role that you do within “Traitors”?

Alan Cumming: When they first talked to me about it, this was unlike anything I've ever done before. I couldn't quite understand why they'd ask me but it sort of sounded fun. My agent said, "Oh, there's some show in a castle and they want you to do it." I took the meeting and realized they wanted me to, in a way, subvert the form of hosting a show like this by playing that sort of character. Everyone does a version of themselves when they host something that’s not very true. But in this [case], it was actually a version of me and it's a very sort of down-to-east Scottish layout. [My dog] Lala wasn't allowed to come the first time because of her papers, or COVID or something. But I said, “Oh, I should take my dog and pet her like a James Bond villain.” I thought of it, and I still think of it as a character that I play who happens to be hosting all these people in this castle, which happens to be being filmed for American TV. 

Q: What makes the character so interesting is that for long-time fans of reality shows, you have a lot of personalities who are binary in nature and larger-than-life. That is why we watch them year after year, characters like C.T. and Adra, who have been on American television for decades. You somehow manage to out-character them in many ways. It's like navigating a lot of those personalities while playing that character.

Alan Cumming: In a way, it's because they have characters and they all come with their shtick. That's what's so interesting about doing it. The first series was comprised of half-real and half-reality people. Definitely, the people who are used to the camera and have an inbuilt persona already, they play themselves very well and understand the role they have to do. Then they're thrown into this thing where everything's sort of destabilizing for them. I just guide them into situations that hopefully, will destabilize them even more. That's what's fun about it. Everyone has a character in a way. 

I think we're used to C.T. or Phaedra or people we've known for years. We understand their characters. We're now associates getting to know my character in it. I'm sort of the stern daddy of it all. It's interesting to play that role and also, to try to keep some distance from them — the cast — on set. I don't talk to them or do takes. I don't engage with them in a chummy sort of way like you might in a normal [situation] when there's other cast members. I very much think it's important that I have authority. They're kind of scared of me. Then, of course, now, after it's all done, I can be like a normal person with them. I think you find that really overwhelming. They all came to my bar as it was when they were here earlier in the year doing the press thing. It was so hilarious. It was like them seeing Father Christmas having a drink or something.

Q: That's the sign of a good host — that they’re scared of you. 

Alan Cumming: They should be scared of me because I've got to reprimand them sometimes. There's a lot of things, obviously, that are captured in the show that I've got in those situations where I've really got to intervene. My word is law. It's great fun. Clearly, I’m a terrifying figure, but I don't think I'm scary. Also, I don't take any shit. I know how to play a scary person. I'm fair but firm in real life. 

Q: Part of what makes “The Traitors” so unique is that in so many other reality shows, both competition and lifestyle, there's no real setting other than the competition. You go to “Survivor Island” and do this thing. Or, if you look at “Real Housewives,” it is their real-life kind of, from time to time. Here, you have this beautiful gothic backdrop. A lot of the events, whether it’s the funeral or going to a cemetery, feels very theatrical — and creepy. We're almost subverting the narrative of what this type of show format really is while also being [true] to the format. 

Alan Cumming: What I think is liberating is the theatricality of it. Everyone in television is very scared of theatricality. If you ever try to pitch a show to a TV executive, the word “theater” or “theatrical” is poison to them. It's very liberating that theatricality is in its very DNA. It's gothic and camp in the true sense of the term. American people sometimes don't have the same understanding of what camp means to British people. What we're doing on the trade is camp. There's a sort of annoyingness to it, an archness of theatricality, and a winking at the audience all the time about what it is. 

There's me in those insane costumes in this castle saying, "Welcome to my castle." We're bringing all these nutty personalities out of their comfort zones and then making them do insane things and pitting them against each other. It's so amped up already in a sort of gothic [manner] of what it's trying to do. The core of it is just a game. All those shows – as I've discovered now in my crash course in reality competition television over the last couple of years – are basically the same. 

"Survivor" is the same as "RuPaul's Drag Race" is the same as "The Chef" one. They're all people doing things and then slowly one person gets put out and then they have to hold. Then there's intrigue. Basically, it's just like schoolyard games of pushing one person out until it's just the next thing. In a way, what's good about this is that that's all it is. But it's got all these psychological layers that I think people underestimate. Also, you're in a castle and they're maddened, these contestants, because they're not allowed to pick up their phones. They're not allowed to talk to each other. All they think about from morning to night is the show and the game. And they go nuts. It's great. 

Q: We mentioned something, this idea of camp in the British sense of the term. Not necessarily what we think of it as evidenced by the Met Gala themes.

Alan Cumming: The theme was a good idea. People just didn’t understand it.

Q: "The Traitors" has a British counterpart. There was a version of this before the U.S. version. What's your take on what had to change within the format for a different audience, or if there had to be any changes, because television has become so much more globalized? Audiences are more open and receptive to different types of formats of television and different types of humor. 

Alan Cumming: I don't really know how to answer that question. I saw some of the first season of the British one. It's not as camp and theatrical as ours. I think this is probably the first time in television history that an American version of the show is more camp and theatrical than the British one. I think that's me, in my opinion. But I feel like, in a funny way, we were able to have more leeway in that department. That's partly down to the costumes and Sam Spector, the stylist — he and I had an idea of the character I wanted to play. 

[The British host] Claudia Winkelman has such a lovely personality and a lovely way in which she deals with people. They have real people, as well. They don't have celebrities. It's all a bit toned down and quite British. Whereas we were able — partly because it was a new show and partly because of the costume thing and me being this character — we've amped it up. It's got this higher level of theatricality built into it. I think sometimes other countries try to do that. But I don't think they're quite as nuts as we are. I know that now there's something someone said, “Claudia does your thing when she throws a picture on the floor now.” I was like, “Yes, you bitch, throw away my little picture.” But it's kind of funny. Sometimes I see little clips of people from other countries’ versions. It's like, “Oh, it seems like it's sort of a fever dream.” You know vaguely what they're talking about, but the circumstances are all different. 

Q: Going to the opposite of toned down, your outfits on the show are probably some of the best parts of it. They somehow get even more fabulous and glamorous every episode.  How involved are you with choosing the outfits versus someone else? 

Alan Cumming: Well, very involved. I talk to Sam all the time. especially in the first season, because I said I wanted to be this dandy Scottish laird. You know what a laird means? It's like lord in a Scottish accent, a Scottish dandy, sort of an aristocratic gent. To me, that means a lot of tartan, a lot of cloaks might be featured, things like that. I went to him with that idea and those sorts of things. Then he ran with it. We go back and forward. Then the second season, we were able to amp it up a bit. He themed the missions with my clothes. There's one with birds. I just have a funny big peacock on my hat and stuff like that. For the next one, I'm about to go and do it again. It's amped up again, more about layering things. 

I have this great relationship with him. We text all the time. He sends some stuff to me, just ideas and things to improve. I think we're going more and more and bigger and bigger. I think surely they're going to stop us soon. But one thing I really do like about it is that — in terms of if we think about what's happening in America and the way that trans people and non-binary people are facing lots of hatred and challenges — me, in this show as a middle-aged man, I’m being quite femmy and wearing a lot of practically feminine female clothes. What's really interesting is to be able to do that in a mainstream way, and challenge people's perceptions of what male and female is, and maybe be a bit in the middle. 

Hopefully, when the audience sees someone in the street who's non-binary or non-gender conforming, they won't be as shocked or horrified. They'll see me in a sort of a fanny dress and a cloak the night before. That's a really positive, accidental thing that's come out of this sort of theatricality of the costumes. One of the things that didn't make it is … I saw it today in my dressing room in my house because I was doing a fitting for some little film I'm doing. I opened this cupboard in the last episode of the last season. It was all on this big ship, which was another story because we had a hideous storm and it was like "Triangle of Sadness." It really was. I was vomiting into a metal bowl. I'll never forget it. Thank you. And bon appetit. But there was a funny little hat that had a little galleon on it with sails. It was hilarious. It was sort of this Tracy-esque sort of thing. Absolutely bonkers. So impractical and nuts. It was on theme for the thing. But it was so windy that day that it kept falling off my head. Now I have it as a little memory. 

Q: As hosts, you are effectively the audience of the show. We're seeing a lot of the things that you're seeing and your commentary throughout the challenges is both biting and reflective of how we're thinking. One of the themes that emerges in this episode you all saw as well leads up to this idea with these contestants, of gamers, those who have been on competitive reality shows and the non-gamers — what they refer to as the bravo, basically anyone that sits up and has fancy wine as part of their show. Is there a core advantage to one side or the other?

Alan Cumming: No, it was the funeral episode. The funeral. Yeah, hilarious. But I just love that because I liked it. As the series went on, they showed me more of me laughing. Obviously, it's Pedro falling in the water. I just loved seeing how he's always getting wet.

Q: Who doesn't? 

Alan Cumming: Who doesn't? But the thing I think about that, I thought was really interesting about the second season — this truly has been a crash course for me — I'm really at the center of it and I can experience it. I feel that a lot of people said that, “Oh, the gamers, they know how to do this, the survivors, the big brothers, the CT did.” The challenge, yeah. The perception is they are devious and they know how to do this game, whereas the outsiders are, oh, you know.

That's not true. It was proven wrong in this season because — like, who was the one who worked it all out, kind of blew it in his execution of it — was the cutie little bachelor, Rafaela Peet. So, you know, the other non-gamer. That to me was really exciting because I loved when our sort of perception about the game was just smashed. And although I guess two gamers did win, but, you know … it didn't necessarily mean it was because of their game win. It's that somebody had to win. I think it's really interesting. It's a much more level playing field. Also, it's a game of chance. You're a traitor because I tap you on the shoulder.  

That's why I loved it when, a couple of weeks in, they're going mental. They're like, “I could never be a traitor.” I go, “You would if I tapped you on the shoulder.” That's why the show is so good. It really screws with people's minds, with the psychological, and the hurt and guilt that people get as well. The guilt [comes from] lying to your friends and everything. It's layer upon layer of awfulness. Having seen people in physical distress, it's always hilarious. 

Q: In the first episode of this [season], as you're walking around, you're going to pick the traitors. You do it a few times, and there's conversation afterwards amongst the cast members about the sound of your jacket rustling as you lift an arm. Or your footsteps and the sound of breathing happening. How did you approach that moment of, "I need to make this as secretive as possible?"

Alan Cumming: It was absolutely the most terrifying part of the whole thing. I could fuck it up immensely in one fell swoop if they heard me or something. There were more of them this year. I do all sorts of things. The first year, we filmed a thing where I touched every single person. We've got the close-up of my hand going on the thing. We filmed that first. They've got an idea of what it feels like to be touched. Then we go round and round and round and round. In terms of the rustling, I would do this. Right in front of their ears. It's so fun.  

I really enjoy it; it's the scariest part because I have a thing in my ear all the time. I can hear in the control room. When we're inside the castle, they're all in the control room, which is like NASA. It really is insane.  I could feel the tension because it was the first thing of the show. Obviously, it's very tense in the room. When you're blindfolded, your other senses get much more aware. So it's really, really scary. I'm trying to get in and just do it without touching anything.

I was just talking with Sam, the stylist, this week about what I was going to wear for that bit. Of course, there were things on my lapels. I thought that would be terrible if you heard them. You have to be really conscious of stuff like that. It's because everyone's senses are so heightened. But it is exciting and terrifying. 

Q: Out of all of your friends or celebrities that you know, who do you think would be great on a season of “The Traitors?” And, what would you have more fun with? Or which role would you think would be better — a traitor or a faithful?

Alan Cumming: I would like to be a traitor. I think everybody would like to be a traitor. It's just getting to go to the turret late at night and think who you're going to kill. I just think it's such fun. They get extra snacks when they go to the turret sometimes. But I don't know. Some people really don't want to be like that. That's why we do this thing now when I interview them. It's just hilarious. Lala and I are sitting there, and they come in one at a time, and they're really terrified. Some people are adamant they don't want to be a traitor. 

Of course, that's actually quite a good idea to make them a traitor when they're doing that. That's what I love about the game, is all these weird, confounding things you can do. Some people very much do think, well, you're not going to. It's actually really interesting, the mix of people that we choose for the show is all based on a lot of factors. But in terms of people that I know, we were just talking about her actually. 

I think Martha Stewart would be so good at it. She's so bossy and sort of strategic and so accomplished and everything. She would make that raft. She would get that catapult going. And, also, I just think she would be at home in a castle. So there's people like that. But I love those people who come on the show. I don't know who they are.

Author/Speaker David Rabadi Helps The World be More Aware of Mental Health Issues Prompted by Repressed Sexuality

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Parent Category: Film and the Arts

Category: Interviews

Published on Monday, 10 June 2024 13:52

Written by Brad Balfour

After David Rabadi was diagnosed with Bipolar disorder – previously known as “manic depressive” illness — he followed a long path to coping with his illness. Not easily understood by most, the condition prompts swings from deep depression to an abnormally elevated mood.

Though Rabadi’s childhood was filled with joyful memories — house parties, family outings and dinners — he was a curious kid who loved Arabic music and belly dancing. He picked up the dancing from his cousin, Suhair, who was his babysitter. But when he was four, he accidentally caught a family friend who was secretly masturbating. The man then shoved his erect penis into the young boy’s mouth and threatened to kill him. 
 
A few years later, at seven, he had another traumatic experience when his aunt Josephine passed away from breast cancer. His dad decided that he had to go to her funeral. There, with her body was in the casket, Rabadi’s father told him to “Go kiss her goodbye!” Given no choice, the boy walked up close to his aunt and kissed her forehead. Then, terrified, he quickly ran outside. Throughout the lad’s entire childhood, he spent much more time with females. He was a boy who liked playing with dolls and wearing his mother’s clothes. Even then, he knew that he was somehow different. 
 
Once, at a special family party with a professional singer, a cousin grabbed Rabadi’s arm and moved him to the center of the room. “Dance!” she said, and everyone applauded as the boy happily followed the instruction. But another male relative said in a harsh tone, “You dance like a girl. You’re a faggot!” The young boy didn’t even know what a “faggot” was but he knew his cousin was right: he danced in a different way from the other men and boys. From that moment on, he never wanted to dance in front of a crowd. And if he did, he tried his best not to “dance like a girl.”

During this PrideMonth, it’s important to consider the mental health issues prompted by denying one’s own sexuality.

Today, Rabadi is an inspirational speaker — a result of learning how to manage his disease and sexuality. He addresses diverse audiences, ranging from high school and college students to business professionals and mental health experts. In his talks, he stresses the importance for each of us of being honest with ourselves by facing our realities. 
 
As Rabadi tells his listeners, “Accepting one’s reality is crucial to living a life that’s happier, healthier, more satisfying and productive.” This is further highlighted in his book, “Live Your Truth: Live To Be Yourself or Die As Someone Else” which came out a few years ago. It describes his struggle with a bi-polar condition that emerged as he confronted being gay in a world which condemned his gayness.
 
Rabadi’s path to this enlightenment didn’t come easily. His own self-healing involved accepting his truth that he is gay. Instead of denying this mental and emotional reality, this encouraging speaker now acknowledges and embraces it. To quote from a speech of his, “My message to each of you is, don’t feel shame for who you are. For example, if you discover that you have some mental illness, don’t be embarrassed to ask for help. Or if you’re struggling with sexuality, give yourself permission to discover your own reality. 
 
“You’ll make wiser decisions if you don’t automatically judge but actually listen to your authentic self. Then, after acknowledging our truths, we can start to discover the approaches — even medicines, if appropriate — that will allow us to live and enjoy our lives to the fullest.” 
 
When this Arab American’s parents came from Jordan, they brought along two older brothers and a sister. Born in Yonkers, New York, the child became a first generation Arab American along with his younger brother John. His father was an example of a strong work ethic and a willingness to do whatever was needed. He worked two jobs, one in a factory and the other as a cab driver while his mother stayed home to raise the kids.

As Rabadi became a teenager, he realized that he was indeed attracted to other males. Being a teenager is challenging for anyone, but being a closeted Arab-American is even harder. Homosexual acts are forbidden in traditional Islamic cultures, sometimes punishable by death. Jordan and Bahrain are the only Arab countries where homosexuality is legal. 
 
Even so, most LGBTQ people in Jordan face social discrimination. Until 2013, it was even legal there to kill a homosexual in a so-called “honor killing.” Today, Rabadi accepts his reality as a gay Arab-American. He no longer feels embarrassed for having Bipolar One disorder. Instead, he now functions effectively, and publicly, as a published author and journalist. Having learned the positive value of accepting himself, he now actively spreads this awareness as an inspirational speaker for a wide range of audiences, from students to adults, Arabs and Americans and many more.
 
Q: How old were you when you first realized you were gay? Describe the moment you realized it and how did you feel?
 
David Rabadi: I was seven years old when I realized I liked boys. I had a friend that was the same age and one day we were in his room and he asked me if I wanted to see what he saw his older brother do with a girl. I said ok. He told me to lay on the bed and then he got on top of me and started humping me. I felt a sensation in my stomach and I immediately liked the feeling. At the time, I didn’t know that it meant I was gay. As I grew older, I learned that I was gay but kept it to myself because I was told that it was against God’s word and I would go to Hell. 
 
Q: Once you understood it, how long did it take to develop relationships?
 
David Rabadi: Once I understood that I was gay, it was very difficult for me to form relationships with boys because I’m Middle Eastern. In our culture it was the deepest point of shame and dishonor. Gay people in the Middle East are put in jail and even killed. I had a lot of fear so I suppressed my sexuality for a long time. I did engage with gay sex but never had a boyfriend. 
 
Q: Given this revelation, how did it impact on your bipolar condition. I assume it had expressed itself as you went through your teen years. Describe when you realized you needed therapy/medication?
 
David Rabadi: I believe because I was suppressing my sexuality, it manifested as Bipolar disorder. I firmly believe you can brush anything off your shoulders but all that’s doing is changing its location. It wasn’t until I was 30 years old that I was diagnosed with “Bipolar One.” Before that I experienced shifts in my mood, but I thought it was normal and that everyone experiences it. I was very productive. I graduated college with my BA in theater and communication. I worked full time. I thought I was perfectly fine except for my denial of my sexuality. 
 
Q: When did you start your book? Was it a result of speaking out or did it come first?
 
David Rabadi: I started writing my book after I came out as gay and was diagnosed as Bipolar. It took me eight years to write my book. I had to become comfortable in sharing my personal experiences and the trauma endured. 
 
Q: What did you feel the book needed to include to be inspirational?
 
David Rabadi: It was important to me to share my story so I could be a person that faced adversity and triumph. I am the first Jordanian to come out as gay in the Arab community in Yonkers. I know I’m not alone. I’ve met other gay Arabs who are still scared to come out and they tell me I am an inspiration. And in regards to sharing I have bipolar, there is a big stigma when it comes to mental illness. I’m on a mission to make mental illness look so good everyone wants it. It’s time to live our truth and not be embarrassed or feel shame for who we are and what we struggle with.
 
Q: Describe your talks and what’s happening on that front?
 
David Rabadi: I go around to different universities and organizations and share my story. I ask the audience in every talk I give, “Do you want to live to be yourself or die as someone else?” Life is precious and we only live once. So do what makes you happy. And know that living your truth is the biggest gift you can give yourself.
 
Q: How do you keep the bipolar condition under control nowadays after your revelations?
 
David Rabadi: I have learned to keep my bipolar disorder under control. I have to take my medication every day. I have to exercise to build endorphins. I see a therapist every two weeks and it’s a great way to keep things in perspective for me. 
 
Rabadi is represented by the All American Entertainment (AAE) speakers bureau:

https://www.allamericanentertainment.com/

Video sample of Rabadi’s message:

https://youtu.be/AanDuF21ur0?si=yoLXvrv-FmoIxUsy

In "Back to Black," Star Marisa Abela Turns in An Uncanny Performance as Amy Winehouse in The Sam Taylor-Johnson Biopic

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Parent Category: Film and the Arts

Category: Interviews

Published on Thursday, 23 May 2024 20:35

Written by Brad Balfour

Film: Back to Black
Director: Sam Taylor-Johnson
Cast: Marisa Abela, Jack O'Connell, Eddie Marsan, Juliet Cowan, Lesley Manville, Sam Buchanan, Pete Lee-Wilson, Thelma Ruby, Renee Matilda Thorpe, Ryan O'Doherty

Evoking classic R&B, the late Amy Winehouse emerged as a celebrated new stars by making old music sound fresh. She possessed a deeply soulful voice which she used to sing songs of love, heartbreak, and struggles with substance abuse, as in her Top-10 hit "Rehab." Winehouse sold 16 million copies of the LP Back to Black" and won big at the 2008 Grammy Awards, taking home Song of the Year, Record of the Year, and Best New Artist. All that success was overshadowed by the Brit’s personal troubles, which, according to MTV News, included an arrest for drug possession — there was a viral video of the singer smoking what was reportedly crack cocaine — and an emphysema diagnosis. 

Winehouse's demons tragically got the best of her. According to The Guardian, authorities were summoned to the singer's north London home in July 2011, where they found her dead at the scene. Winehouse was reportedly a heroin user, but a post mortem inquest pinpointed a different cause of death. According to “The Independent”, a London coroner found no drugs in her system, ruling that the singer died of alcohol poisoning following a period of three weeks of sobriety. Winehouse is believed to have consumed 416 milligrams of alcohol per deciliter of blood, well over a fatal level of 350 milligrams. She was 27 years old.

This complicated history has been fodder for articles, books, a notable documentary and now a feature film, "Back to Black". The movie’s title is taken from the hot album of the same name. Directed by 57-year-old Sam Taylor-Johnson, herfeature film debut was 2009's "Nowhere Boy," based on the Beatles' singer/songwriter John Lennon's childhood experiences.

Taylor-Johnson’s star for "Back to Black,” Marisa Abela, made her TV debut in 2020 with leads in the Sky One political thriller, "COBRA" and the BBC Two/ HBO office drama, "Industry."  Abela appeared in the 2022 films, "She Is Love" and "Rogue Agent." In July 2022, she joined the cast of Greta Gerwig's "Barbie" (2023). Then the actress starred as Winehouse in this biopic. 

This Q&A comes from an appearance made by the duo at the Museum of The Moving Image shortly before the film's May 17th release.

Q: This is a remarkable story and one that, in some ways, is privy to when she was alive. For each of you, what moved the dial from this is a remarkable story to this is a remarkable story that I need to tell? 

Sam Taylor-Johnson: When Alison Owen, our producer, called me and said, "I'm looking to make the story of Amy Winehouse, which would be interesting," I felt like I couldn't say "Yes" quick enough. After I said so, I suddenly processed the enormity of what I was taking on. It felt like it had to be made from [Amy's] perspective because, by living in London around the time when she was alive, I watched how her life was dissected and pulled apart in the tabloids and similarly post-death. I felt like going directly into her perspective. It was almost like allowing her to tell her own story through her words and her lyrics. It felt like a timely thing to do. 

Marisa Abela: Basically, I got a call from my agent who said they're doing it. I was about 13 when "Back to Black" came out, so I was aware of her music. I was singing the songs, but when you're singing “Love Is A Losing Game” and you're 13 years old, it doesn't mean that you really understood it fully. That was my understanding of Amy [at the time]. Then, because of all of the tabloids and the images and stuff, I knew of her in that way. So, I said, "Let me think about it." I was then in front of Sam Taylor-Johnson and Nina Gold, an amazing casting director in London. I knew they were being quite specific about who they were seeing, so I just didn't want to make a fool of myself, essentially. 

ThenI started watching footage, the documentary, interviews about her life – things that really were quite telling [about] who she was as a person. There was just this thing about her and that carried me through the entire process I was watching. And there was this magnetism, this intensity, this deep well of feeling, emotions and intensity, that I was so drawn to. I felt that we'd drawn from Amy, herself. It was all there in her music. And for the people who still listened to her music often, this is for them. In the narrative around her life and death, I felt that what we'd lost really came through, but it seems like there's a double-edged sword here. 

Q: There's so much media and coverage, so many perspectives to sort through. Talk a bit more about your process and how you blocked out the noise and chose to privilege us with her perspective with what was there? 

Sam Taylor-Johnson: It was important from the beginning to just block out the noise. There was a lot, especially when we were filming, and it became louder and louder. The louder it became, the more determined I was to just keep driving forward with it through her eyes and to uphold her. Our press are quite famous for pulling down anything that might seem to be successful in any way. It felt like those voices saying we need to protect her legacy were also the ones who pulled her apart during her lifetime. That emboldened me in a way to shut those voices out. The decision around how and what sort of film was going to be quite quickly came into place. 

When I sat down with Matt Greenhalgh, who wrote the movie, I said, "If we are going through her workstyle perspective, with "Frank" and then "Back to Black," obviously those are the keys to this film. "Back to Black" really is a love story and tells us everything within it. It became our framework. I knew that that was difficult for a lot of people who had a lot of opinions and judgments. I felt like her declaration of love and the power of that love was important to uphold in order to understand the creative journey of "Back to Black. In a way, we went into her perspective saying, she loved her father and she loved Blake: therefore, that's our view. We still see some of the things that are highlighted in the documentary that people feel strongly about. They're still part of our film, but they're not seen through the lens of judgment. It was quite freeing to stay in her shoes on that journey. 

Q: This being a love story, you think immediately of romantic love. But the relationships that I was most struck by were those she had with her family. Talk a bit about choosing actors and having them light up those roles? 

Sam Taylor-Johnson: With her Jewish grandmother, it was clear — during the research and hearing the stories from the family and others — that she was so much a part of the fabric of who Amy was, through Grandma Cynthia’s style and love of jazz and music. So it felt like, "Okay, this is worth going further into and strengthening that relationship."  But when I went to Lesley [Manville] initially, she said, "Oh, I don't know if there's enough on the page for me." I said, "Look at it like this is the fabric of Amy." Once Lesley came on board, we then wrote more scenes because she was just so exceptional. We just honed in on those relationships that we felt were really important to the narrative of this story. Obviously, within -- I don't know how many minutes it was, I've forgotten --- so much had to be dropped by the wayside. For me, as a storyteller, I have to just find my path. The Winehouses -- Cynthia, Mitch, and Janis — plus husband Blake were on a path. 

Q: Talk a bit more about the music. Obviously there's a great blueprint here. Did you have to make difficult decisions about what songs were included? 

Sam Taylor-Johnson: I’ll start, but I want Marisa to take over on this because I'm talking too much. What I had quite early on was one of her playlists. On that playlist were The Specials and Minnie Riperton. It was quite a gift to have that. Amazingly, of all the things that were written that weren't Amy's music, we managed to have access to it. But when I started the movie, I had all the music rights from Sony and Universal. I didn't have to have approval for anybody. I could just make the movie I wanted to make. Matt wrote very specifically for the songs, almost like it's a musical in the sense that it belonged to the narrative structure. You couldn't choose "Love Is a Losing Game" and switch it with "Stronger Than Me." It really was laid out that way.

I'll let Marisa come into this because I just want to say, when I met Marisa for the audition, she said, I remember, "What about singing? I'm not a singer." But Marisa sang that entire movie. Every song you hear. So from the position of declaring she couldn't sing, what you saw is very contrary to that. Okay, you can talk about that...

Marisa Abela: I think what became clear was, as I was reading the script more and more, and watching more and more footage of Amy, was that these albums are so iconic and incredible from a songwriting perspective as well as a musical one. But what was so incredible about the performances I was watching was that they were completely different every single time. If she was in a bad mood – and she was often in a really, really bad mood – you wouldn't get half the song from her. If she was in a great mood, she was singing all over the place, amazing riffs. To certain members of the audience, this is the thing that made Amy a live performer. 

What weirdly felt like the most authentic choice was to be able to use my own voice to make whatever choice came to me in the moment from a purely impulse perspective as an actor. What was inspiring me at this moment? Is it that I'm looking at Blake during "There Is No Greater Love" and I'm so overwhelmed with feeling and emotion that I want to hold on to a specific sound for longer so that he can hear me through all of those decisions? In the same way, the first time you hear her write one of her own songs with "What Is It About Men," I wanted to be able to think about each line. How am I formulating this moment? you get to see the behind-the-scenes of the creation of a song. That's a really beautiful thing. If we were cutting to the studio recording of "What Is It About Men," for example, you couldn't have that scene of Amy sitting on the bed writing it for the first time, getting mixed up with certain words.

I basically felt I needed to get as close as possible to something that sounded as recognizable as possible to one of the most recognizable voices that you would believe in. The truth is, if you listen to them side by side, I'm sure there are huge differences. But it doesn't matter as long as you believe what she's saying and as long as you believe what she's feeling. That, to me, was always the most important thing as an actor, obviously. It's the intention that matters. Process-wise, I trained very hard and also learned to play the guitar. I listened to all the people that I think she would have grown up listening to. As Sam said, we had lots of playlists of hers. 

I was aware that she grew up listening to Billie Holiday, Sarah Vaughan, Diana Washington, Ella Fitzgerald, Lauryn Hill, Ray Charles. I just surrounded myself with that music and was singing along to it all the time. Then I was using the techniques I was learning with my singing teacher that were Amy's tecjmoqies. We have a different face. She has a bigger jaw than me. She had a different nose to me. We use different resonances. So, it's different. But the intention is the most important thing. I was training for two hours a day, every day, over the four months with my singing teacher.

Q: There's so much to dive into with its emotionality, but you touched upon something that I wanted me to talk to you about – creating these scenes like Glastonbury, the Grammys and things that we have enormous touchstones for beyond Amy's experiences. These are media events that happen all the time. So practically recreating these scenes, which you do so successfully, can you talk more about them? 

Sam Taylor-Johnson: Oh, I'd love to because I'm so proud of Glastonbury. When you see that big open-air festival, we shot it in a room not much bigger than this theater. We just had brilliantly creative teams working on this. Glastonbury for the rest of the year is just a field. So all of those stages and everything, we had to recreate and film it. I had an incredible sound crew. What we created, it took months to get that sound exactly right. Then the Ronnie Scott scene early on. That was the only time I ever saw Amy play, in a young, up-and-coming Voices of Jazz. How old was she? Probably 19 or 20. It was at Ronnie Scott's. I used my memory of what it felt like being in the room with her to recreate how that would have felt. But yes, a lot of it, like the Grammys, we had YouTube running alongside what we were filming to try and emulate it as much as possible – like the same camera angles. Marisa's performance, as you can see, was absolutely spot-on. Every finger movement was incredible. So it was fun. It was so fun to recreate this. And, it's fun to watch it.